Professor Saggi interview 3/27/08
Professor Kamal Saggi is the head of the Southern Methodist University (SMU) Economics Department. One of his specialties is trade. As I promised, I asked Professor Saggi about free trade. Thankfully for us he graciously agreed to the interview below!
This is a recap of what I asked Professor Saggi about trade:
He starts out with this question: Do you oppose free trade between New York and California? Why not? (Common sense here says no US citizen opposes it) So why does drawing a border (like the one we have with Mexico) make a difference? Regions in a country specialize in different things just like different countries specialize in different things – all kinds of things: rice, wine, textiles, services, etc. It is best to take advantage of the differences. Your goal should be to go for efficiency – maximum efficiency. Efficiency means maximizing net benefits. Free trade is a positive sum gain for we gain and they gain.
Professor Saggi then offered one of the most creative explanations to illustrate his point that I have heard: Should somebody like Kobe Bryant mow his own lawn? After all he will be the best lawn mower, he has long strides, powerful arms, good control, perfect rotation, he is MADE for lawn-mowing. But (as we all can appreciate) he shouldn’t because his time should and would be better spent leading the Lakers. This same argument can be applied to trade. Specialization and doing what you are best at leads to efficiency.
Now I know a lot of you guys are asking about NAFTA – so I asked Professor Saggi to shed some light on this issue: In the scope of things NAFTA isn’t really big – or are other pacts for that matter. The amount of US trade liberalization because of NAFTA is very small, even prior to NAFTA we had low tariffs on Mexican goods and services anyway! In other words – what people were complaining about in the first place was more or less already the situation. If they didn’t complain about it before, and they didn’t, then it doesn’t make sense for them to complain about it now! So what DID NAFTA do? NAFTA opened up Mexico to us not the other way around – they lowered their tariffs and non-trade-barriers. Don’t get me, my father-in-law or professor Saggi wrong, Mexico STILL has some barriers, but it is much better than before.
Ok so what is next – AHA – Jobs! I asked. The next part is straight from Professor Saggi again:
Jobs – big thing on jobs is that you want to maximize the size of the economy, maximize GDP. The bigger the GDP is the more jobs that will lead too. Let’s say only Wall Street gets rich, they will spend it on stuff they want and that will lead to jobs for other people. It doesn’t have to be, or in most cases it won’t be, that all jobs have to expand evenly, for some industries increase, the good/competitive industries, and bad/not-competitive industries shrink like in textile, or steel, etc. But the fact is that industries that do gain, gain a lot more than the industries that lose. In other words there is a positive sum gain, or a net gain. We will gain other jobs, so the question is how many jobs are we gaining or losing. On net, or overall, from the evidence it’s a wash, BUT we create higher paying jobs than we lose (we typically lose low paying jobs) so we are getting richer. It doesn’t mean no one will lose, but policy wise it should be that what is in the national interest (highest GDP possible) be implemented and not in the individual interest which may or may not coincide with the national. BTW guys GDP also means National Income – the two are one in the same.
I then asked Professor Saggi what to do with the people who lose their jobs to trade and about the time and resources it takes for them to reenter the work place. Here is what he said:
Time resources etc… Say for example an ex steel worker loses his job – can this guy who lost his job in the steel industry work in another sector like air craft manufacturing? No he can’t just go there and work, he needs retraining and/or assistance… we do know that these people have a difficult time doing this. Why? Here are some reasons: US job loses occurs in low skill and educational job level, trade destroys more of the bad jobs than good jobs in US. That guy is still hurting though (he doesn’t think his job is bad it is his livelihood) – we don’t have very expensive readjustment programs or assistance programs in place, we have trade adjustment assistance programs to help these kinds of workers who lose jobs, but evidence says it doesn’t work very well for a very good reason: the majority of workers who lose jobs choose not to go through the program because 80-85% find new jobs anyway without them. [That is right - the vast majority of these people find new jobs without gov’t trade adjustment assistance!] Can the gov’t do more? In principle yes, but in all practicality no – if you are in your 20s and lose job yes you can retrain – but if you are 55 is it rational to invest in training? Nope, or at least probably not. Probably more should be done, but the gov’t has not been able to figure out an efficient system.
Professor Saggi then moved on to a topic I had not thought of relating to this – it is pretty interesting:
The issue is philosophical – why is it special that you lose a job to trade? If a company shuts down in the US 9/10 times it is because of competition in domestic market [US]. Ethically it is not clear why the trade job losers should be treated differently, [Professor Saggi] doesn’t see a difference morally or philosophically. There is general unemployed insurance in place for that already. People argue that that is enough, because of this idea that there is no difference.
That concludes our interview: For continued reading Professor Saggi recommends a book by Douglas Irwin – Free Trade Under Fire.
I would like to extend a warm thank you from me, my family, and this site’s readers to Professor Kamal Saggi for his wonderful interview. You didn’t have to and we know you are very busy. We very much appreciate you taking the time to do this.
I would also like to extend a warm thank you to my Professor Rupinder Saggi for perhaps helping me get this interview. She recommended I ask her husband about the topic, and she might have pulled a few strings for me in getting the interview. Even if she didn’t this little piece still would not have happened if not for her.
Thank you both very much.
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